A Scriptural Response To David Nathan & His Proponents by Jacob Prasch

A Scriptural Response To David Nathan & His Proponents by Jacob Prasch – 14 September 2018

Lifestyle C does not endorse Bread of Life Ministries, anyone affiliated with them or David Nathan any more!

David Nathan is no longer the representative of Moriel in South Africa. The new representative is Mike Benade.

With this response by Jacob we concur although we personally have more questions outstanding currently that have not been answered to satisfaction in our own context in South Africa on teachings on Prayer as well as Reformed Theology and the Angel as Restrainer with which we differ with David and which also has led to this decision! For further information to this regard please send me a mail on which I will respond.

David Nathan was recently removed from Moriel Ministries due to doctrinal error. While unfortunate in many ways it was a necessary and urgent decision.
Mr. Nathan issued a response that muddied the waters. Jacob Prasch just arrived in the U.S. from extensive travel through Africa and Asia. He now addresses the situation in detail.


Why There Is Still A Question… (David Nathan) >>>
Posted on December 30, 2018 by Bill Randles
In the Summer and fall of 2018, many of us who have been for the most part friends and allies in the Gospel, have been subject to a split, it started out as a very human interaction but I am convinced it morphed into a kind of Satanic attack.

We are the ones who have enjoyed the same circles of teachers, and who in large part have left heretical churches to become a kind of informal, grassroots remnant of believers, kind of like David’s cave in Adullam; we were the outcasts, and those who were moved to seek teaching that was deeper and purer and exempt from the heresies of our day.

But in the events which arose when Moriel ministries separated from David Nathan, and in the various debates which swirled around it, there is no doubt in many of our minds, Satan has been given permission to have us and to sift us like wheat.

I really don’t wish to revisit the secondary controversies about whether or not either party handled the separation properly and had given each other the time and grace to resolve, nor the other further controversies raging around the rhetoric used, this one calling that one’ Ahab’, ‘AntiChrist’, f’alse teacher’, ‘heretic’, ‘religious crackpot’ and worse ephithets..

It wasn’t one-sided either, for the other camp resorted to responding with ‘liar’, ‘mentally ill’, ‘unbalanced’, ‘Spiritual abuser’, and vicious videos were produced and distributed as well, accusing people who tried in good faith to contribute, of being mere ‘spin doctors’, cowards and so forth.

These things have the marks of Satan entering into the congregation and those who resorted to them recklessly (and there have been many on both sides) have yielded to Satan without a doubt. That aspect of these past months deserves serious reflection on all of our parts, for the anger vitriol, accusation and slander which has casually been indulged in by some (certainly not most) has been exceedingly hurtful to our cause.

Temptations and trials neither give us faith, nor do they take it away, they merely show us the reality of our faith and love or the lack thereof. We have all been tried severely friends, God has allowed it.

I have wanted to ‘clear the table’ of all of the obfuscation, argument, accusation and other fleshly manifestation and just simply address the original issue…because there is something about it that troubles me.

In my view, the original issue which triggered all of this boils down to two statements of David Nathan’s;

“ The blood of Jesus will not profit anyone anything in the Millennium” and the twin statement in which Nathan strongly asserts that the blood sacrifices offered in the Millennium are in no way memorial. In other words, they do not point back to the cross of Jesus, as the Lord’s Supper does.
” God the Father did not Create anything”…
Since then, David has preached entire sermons, which assure us that he believes that only the blood of Jesus can save people, and that He believes in the power and eternity of Jesus’ blood, and in effect He has bent over backwards to proclaim Orthodoxy as regarding salvation by the blood.

I am glad for that and accept that he believes the right thing about the blood of Jesus in this dispensation. I have been berated by many of David’s friends who have seemingly been baffled, demanding of me,”What more does David have to do to get you to see that he believes in the blood of Jesus just like you do?”

I am compelled to write this to you who feel this way and want an answer.

I have heard David’s sermons about the issue, and have heard him apologizing for having mis-spoke, and He even humbled himself (to his credit) admitting to pride in the way he had spoken. Praise God.

So what is my problem? Why haven’t I ‘forgiven ‘ him? *

My problem is that David has never explained why he said such an outrageous thing in the first place, and I have never heard him once specifically repudiate it.

This is why I have maintained all along that David could have and should have cleared this up immediately. This could have happened in Los Angeles, it would have taken five minutes, unless David really does believe such a thing.

The answer to such a statement is not another sermon or a soft interview which involves a mere confession of the Orthodox doctrine. The outrageous statement needs to either be explained or repudiated.

The same goes for the equally outrageous statement, ” God the Father Created Nothing…” . Yes David I have heard your sermon in which you set forth the doctrine of Christ as the agent of Creation, and I agree with it. All of orthodox Christianity would agree that Christ is the agent of Creation, that is not the issue. Everyone I know would agree with the scriptures you set forth about Christophanies in the Old Testament.But you didn’t clear up the original statement, you doubled down.

But no one I know of except you and perhaps Oneness Pentecostals would then make the leap in logic and assert that since Christ is the agent of creation, then “God the Father Created Nothing…”.

Christ is the agent of Creation, all things were made by him, for him and through him, but it doesn’t follow to say that the Father didn’t create a thing. “Let us make man in our Image…”. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit all had a complete part in Creation, it is needlessly provocative to asset otherwise.

David doesn’t repudiate this assertion, he seems to double down on it…that is my nagging problem.

I love David Nathan, his lovely wife and daughter. I have been accused of dragging his name through the mud, harming him, accusing and badgering him and not forgiving him, none of which is true. I haven’t involved myself in the vitriol, I have been slimed myself by people on both sides of this.

My conclusion for my friends who think otherwise is this, “If you don’t have a problem with a minister who says that the blood of Jesus will not profit anyone in the Millennium, ” or perhaps even worse, that there is no memorial aspect to the coming blood sacrifices (This means that there will be sacrifices offered which are not connected in any way to Calvary), go right ahead and do what you are led to do.

Furthermore if you think David N has adequately addressed all of the concerns about his denial that the Father created everything, go for it. I don’t want to fight (except for the truth) . Everyone must do what is in their heart.

I have all kinds of problems with these two issues, but don’t assume I haven’t forgiven or don’t love David Nathan because it isn’t true. I don’t want to belabor the point any more. I am not ashamed to say that I love everyone in this sad spectacle. I am sorry for any I have let down in anyway in this fight. We will have other spiritual fights to come, hopefully not among ourselves.

May God forgive us and truly give us his gift of discernment, because it looks like we are not anywhere near as sharp as we thought we were, nor as Loving. Remember that the balance is Truth and LOVE.

This should never have been a mere personal issue. Doctrinal issues are not primarily a matter of forgiveness … they are matters of the determination of truth… One cannot deviate from the doctrine of the blood of Jesus or from the doctrine of the person of Christ or of God and then merely be forgiven. We have to know that we know that our companions in the ministry are Orthodox. (James 3:1)


John Haller, Bill Randles,Ian Huxham & Amos Farrell respond to David Nathan December 22, 2018

Biblical response to David Nathans heretical teaching


Moriel TV
2018-12-17
Announcement

A staged video clip falsely claiming that Moriel & Jacob Prasch are ‘Under Investigation’ is of course completely without foundation. Such fabrications are as untrue as they are malicious. We are able to confirm that neither Moriel or Jacob Prasch are under any investigation of any kind by any civil, governmental, or police authority for anything in any country or in any jurisdiction.

Moriel TV has already ceased commenting on the David Nathan issue and we have ceased responding to his proponents and defenders such as Deborah and Stuart Menelaws though do stand by the factual accuracy of what had been reported. We reject as hyperbolic nonsense the hideous demands of Graham Baldwin and the Menelaws framed in language that may legally constitute blackmail.

Moriel TV transmissions are produced, operated and administrated in the USA under the ownership of Moriel USA, which is legally and financially separate from Moriel UK. Our attorneys assure us our content is protected under First Amendment and Fair Use laws. The legal home and tax home of Jacob Prasch is in the USA although he is in other countries for interim periods (including the UK). He has no UK home, property lease, permanent address, or personal assets in the UK. Jacob Prasch moreover is not even on Social Media and is therefore in no position to ‘e-stalk’ or harass anyone.

As the ROKU financial report of Moriel shows, no wages for Jacob Prasch appear in the audits of Moriel UK because Jacob does not receive any, and all of our recorded materials are freely available at no cost on the Internet. We invite anyone to download any material of Moriel or Jacob Prasch free of charge, only requesting it not be edited or commercially sold. Giving it away is encouraged.

Emails sent by us in response to vitriolic attacks against Moriel Ministries and Jacob Prasch claimed to be abusive by Mr. Baldwin and the Menelaws have notably not been produced by them, essentially because read in context as such do not exist. They are merely replies to hostile attacks upon us including libelous allegations of mental illness. We have however, decline to reply to more recent emails by David Nathan and Deborah Menelaws who seem pointlessly intent to keeping this monster alive. All that needs to be established doctrinally and otherwise has been stated and re-stated already and we do not intend to be participants of this Christ dishonoring religious charade triggered by heresy and those who defend it. For us it has been over for some time already.

A detailed point by point response to this poorly contrived ‘investigation’ nonsense may be made available upon request to those known to us, but we have ended any further TV commenting on this David Nathan & Menelaws issue weeks ago. Others wishing to drag it out, will continue to be ignored. We have meanwhile thanked Bill Randles for his apologetic removal of a blog critical of Jacob.

Sincerely,

Moriel Board


Moriel recently dismissed David Nathan due to doctrinal error being taught. Though Mr. Nathan agreed to change his position, nothing was forthcoming. As a result he was removed from Moriel. In response to his removal David Nathan issued a statement that was permeated with misrepresentations and in some cases, flat out lies. Truth is always doctrinal, not relational. Moriel regrets that it has come to this, but has a responsibility to the body of Christ, especially in light of their promotion of David Nathan, to not only retract the endorsement but to warn against what Mr. Nathan is teaching.

David Nathan’s Right of Reply? (Jacob Prasch Responds)

Teachings by Jacob Prasch


Why Animal Sacrifices & Feasts During The Millennium? (Jacob Prasch)

Did God The Father Create Anything? (Jacob Prasch)

In this Q & A, Jacob Prasch addresses the heretical teaching that God The Father is not the creator, but that Jesus created everything independently. In addition to this he addresses another false teaching that men are created in the image of Adam. These teachings have been propagated by David Nathan of Bread of Life Ministries

Leave Me Out Of It (Jacob Prasch on 22 Nov 2018)

Filthy Lucre & The Mark Of The Beast


Moriel TV
December 12 at 3:50 AM ·
AFTER ACCEPTING THEW INVITATION OF BILL RANDLES TO DEBATE , DAVID NATHAN BACKS DOWN AND RUNS AWAY AGAIN

Moriel was delighted when David Nathan had enthusiastically and instantly accepted the invitation of Pastor Bill Randles to debate Jacob Prasch on the fixed doctrinal issues that ignited the present situation to be held at Bill Randles’ church. David Nathan and Jacob Prasch both in writing agreed. Jacob has likewise accepted. The debate agreed to first by David Nathan and then immediately afterwards by Jacob Prasch by the invitation of Bill Randles was by David Nathan’s agreement and then by Jacob to be a debated at Bill’s church with the usual moderated debate forum with a moderator keeping time and keeping the debaters solidly on point, and with two co-moderators literate in New Testament Greek and biblicalical Hebrew. There was to bel uninterrupted right of rebuttal for both sides and David Nathan’s teaching videos would be shown unedited affording him an opportunity to defend his doctrinal statements from his opponent who would challenge them in a fair forum that would l be globally live streamed and video recorded.

Here are the exact emails of Bill Randles extending the invitation to debate at his church in the USA and of David Nathan and Jacob Prasch accepting.

This debate that both parties agreed to at the invitation to Bill Randles’ church was the only genuine and constructive opportunity to resolve existing differences through the decisive theological resolution of the very serious doctrinal issues that have caused these differences.

Unfortunately, for the second time David Nathan has given and broken his word as he first did in Los Angeles and is now apparently running scared having renegade on the debate he agreed to, rather insisting a silly charade of some description to be held not at Bill Randles’ church as he agreed , but in the UK instead of the doctrinal debate he had in writing accepted.,

The exact correspondence between Bill Randles, David Nathan and Jacob Prasch is as follows:

As you can see, David Nathan changed nearly all of the terms the following day after enthusiastically accepting Pastor Randles’ invitation in order to ensure that a proper debate as offered could not take place.He accepted the terms as proposed and then changed his mind the next day with nearly a dozen new stipulations.

Jesus said such conduct is of the devil: “Let your yes be yes, and your no be no – anything further comes from the Wicked One (Matthew 5:37).

——–
BILL RANDLES

On 10 Dec 2018, at 20:36, Bill Randles wrote:

Dear David and Jacob, I have a proposal which I think will greatly promote some kind of healing and resolution to the recent rift and division engendered by the arguments swirling around the events of this autumn.
We would be willing to provide a venue and air tickets to both of you for a debate , as long as it remains on the scriptural issues only, and nothing else. Why not actually discuss the real issues, whether or not David has promoted heresy.
suggest we be succinct and debate the issue of the statement “The Blood of Jesus will profit no one during the Millennium” and the other issue should be the statement, “The Father created nothing…”. I am open to any other suggestions you two have.
We at believers in grace are willing to pay airfare and host a weekend of debate, with rules, an objective moderator, and all will be filmed, and perhaps even streamed.
Would you two be willing to do so? I think it would really put some of these issues and the strife that has swirled around them to rest, especially of you two can show everybody a Christian example of discussion, and that you can put the past behind, and really bless the body of Christ.

Please let me know ASAP and we will get this going. Imagine the joy and healing that could come if we could do this?

Sincerely awaiting your reply, Pastor Bill Randles

——–

DAVID NATHAN

From: David Nathan
Date: Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 6:47 PM
Subject: Re:
To: Bill Randles
Cc: Jacob Prasch

Dear Bill

I would welcome any attempt that will bring clarification of the issues expressed as concerns and reconciliation.
The Body has been hurt by this and I gladly accept your offer.

Sincerely,
David

———

JACOB PRASCH

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 6:51 PM Jacob Prasch wrote:

I certainly would be willing to debate David Nathan over his teachings which I also determine
to be heretical and false concerning the issues specified. The unedited video clips of David Nathan’s teaching
can be played and challenged by myself and defended by David Nathan in fair, open and moderated doctrinal debate.
I am prepared to engage in this debate at the very first slot I have available to do so on my next scheduled visit to
North Americas in early Spring.

In Christ,

JJ Prasch


Moriel TV

A video from Genesis Christian Radio exposing the False Doctrines of David Nathan.


Moriel TV
2018-12-17
Announcement

A staged video clip falsely claiming that Moriel & Jacob Prasch are ‘Under Investigation’ is of course completely without foundation. Such fabrications are as untrue as they are malicious. We are able to confirm that neither Moriel or Jacob Prasch are under any investigation of any kind by any civil, governmental, or police authority for anything in any country or in any jurisdiction.

Moriel TV has already ceased commenting on the David Nathan issue and we have ceased responding to his proponents and defenders such as Deborah and Stuart Menelaws though do stand by the factual accuracy of what had been reported. We reject as hyperbolic nonsense the hideous demands of Graham Baldwin and the Menelaws framed in language that may legally constitute blackmail.

Moriel TV transmissions are produced, operated and administrated in the USA under the ownership of Moriel USA, which is legally and financially separate from Moriel UK. Our attorneys assure us our content is protected under First Amendment and Fair Use laws. The legal home and tax home of Jacob Prasch is in the USA although he is in other countries for interim periods (including the UK). He has no UK home, property lease, permanent address, or personal assets in the UK. Jacob Prasch moreover is not even on Social Media and is therefore in no position to ‘e-stalk’ or harass anyone.

As the ROKU financial report of Moriel shows, no wages for Jacob Prasch appear in the audits of Moriel UK because Jacob does not receive any, and all of our recorded materials are freely available at no cost on the Internet. We invite anyone to download any material of Moriel or Jacob Prasch free of charge, only requesting it not be edited or commercially sold. Giving it away is encouraged.

Emails sent by us in response to vitriolic attacks against Moriel Ministries and Jacob Prasch claimed to be abusive by Mr. Baldwin and the Menelaws have notably not been produced by them, essentially because read in context as such do not exist. They are merely replies to hostile attacks upon us including libelous allegations of mental illness. We have however, decline to reply to more recent emails by David Nathan and Deborah Menelaws who seem pointlessly intent to keeping this monster alive. All that needs to be established doctrinally and otherwise has been stated and re-stated already and we do not intend to be participants of this Christ dishonoring religious charade triggered by heresy and those who defend it. For us it has been over for some time already.

A detailed point by point response to this poorly contrived ‘investigation’ nonsense may be made available upon request to those known to us, but we have ended any further TV commenting on this David Nathan & Menelaws issue weeks ago. Others wishing to drag it out, will continue to be ignored. We have meanwhile thanked Bill Randles for his apologetic removal of a blog critical of Jacob.

Sincerely,

Moriel Board

**DISCLAIMER** The Moriel Facebook page is for posting announcements. It is not a forum for open discussion and/or debate. To limit this, we have opted to hide ALL comments from ALL users. We reserve the right to delete any comments or ban any disruptive users. We highly encourage everyone to private message us with their comments or concerns.


REMNANTS: A Rebuke To Pastors – Jacob Prasch

A Rebuke To Pastors – Woe to the shepherds. In the last days the sheep will not merely be scattered by wolves and false teachers, but by negligent hirelings who do not protect them as they ought. We see the proliferation of apostasy in these days, and it is largely due to an unprecedented influx in hirelings who care more for their jobs than they do the truth. Jacob addresses this problem of apostasy at the hands of hirelings who are not true shepherds. These clips were compiled from “Jeremiah 23 and the Last Days” found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0fIx… and “Signatures of Satan” found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5tzl…


The Davidic Kingdom and the Millennial Reign of Jesus – Jacob Prasch


Jacob Prasch Exposed? – David Nathan & Friends In Their Own Words


En die vyeboom bot! The Fig tree is in blossom!

Vyeboom bot Leefstyl C / Lifestylr C
Eschatology >>>
We have to get oil! Ons moet olie kry!

Die tyd raak min, maak maar seker jou eskatologiese vertrekpunte is korrek!

Larkin-Charts-Daniel-and-Revelation Lifestyle C / Leefstyl C
We have to have discernment when talking about Eschatology withstanding the apostasy in the contemporary church that The Word of God warns would precede the return of Jesus. With the Conviction that ……

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